Tony Katz:
Little talked about was this decision regarding bump stocks and how this ban on bump stocks in the era of President trump was pushed to the wayside in a six three opinion because of a case brought by Michael Cargill. Michael Cargill joins me right now… It’s good to have you here. Let’s start with. The basics for people who don’t know, how do you describe to people what a bump stock is?
Michael Cargill:
Well, the bump stock is actually a part that you attached to a rifle, and you use the recoil of the gun firing to actually press the trigger to actually fire around. And every time you use that recall, you push out, kind of push out with your left use that, you know, recall the reaction of the gun firing. To press the trigger get fires your fingers hitting the trigger every single time.
Tony Katz:
So, it’s clearly a semi-automatic and hey it just helps you fire faster. So, the idea of what it does is different than whether or not people like to use it. Because as I know the conversation, I’m a Second Amendment guy, not particularly a gun guy. There’s a difference there. You can’t fake the gun stuff. You either know or you don’t. And that’s all there is to it. The idea of if you’re looking to have aim, if you’re looking to have, you know, make precise shots, a bump stock is not necessarily what you want. Correct?
Michael Cargill:
Exactly. So, you’re not going to have your snipers out there. Not one sniper on this planet is going to tell you that a bump stock is the ideal firearm to use. It’s more something that you want to use for fun, you know, something like that, but definitely not, you know, for, you know, for accuracy. So, what happened is that this accessory got reclassified by the ATF. So, the ATF basically just said that, hey, you know, they just changed their mind out of a whim because of there was a shooting that happened in Las Vegas. So, because of that shooting, they decided to take a look at this, and they said, hey, you know what? Basically, it’s a machine gun without even, you know, really looking at how it actually works.
Source: Getty Images / Getty
Tony Katz:
We talk about what took place there in Las Vegas. At the the music festival shooting, 60 people were killed. It was a horrific scene to which we’ve never gotten enough answers about who this guy was and how the the weapons, plural even got into the hotel room. But you’re saying that from this the the ATF decided to take a look at bump stocks? And then made a decision not based on anything else except the actions of one person?
Michael Cargill:
Yeah, regardless of how horrific that is, we’re not denying that and decided to make the change. once the shooting happened in Las Vegas, the pressure was put on the gun community, put on everyone, put on our our elected officials to do something. They said, you know, this shooting happened in Las Vegas. X number of people were killed, the largest mass shooting in the history of this country. Something had to be done. And so even people in the pro-gun community, like the NRA were on board with banning bump stocks. I said, OK, if this is what this person used, we’ll go ahead and give up the bump stocks. We’ll go ahead and, you know, settle for them taking those, you know, So we’ll just do that. And so, I said, this is crazy. You’re telling me because of one person allegedly used doing something to commit a crime, one person allegedly used this device, you’re going to ban them in the entire country in the United States? I said, you know, that is something that I can’t stand for. You know, I’m here in Texas. I didn’t commit a crime. I didn’t do anything wrong. You know, you’re telling me you’re gonna walk into my house and tell me something illegally purchased, you’re going to confiscate it if I don’t don’t turn it over to you, you’re going to ban them, you know, and you’re going to turn me into a felon overnight. And I thought that was just not acceptable.
Tony Katz:
But that is what they did. They they wanted to turn you into a felon overnight. You then bring this case when you talk to your your lawyer, did they look at you and say, how in the world are are you out of your mind? You really want to take on this behemoth of a thing?
Michael Cargill:
Absolutely. So well, initially I had to had to find someone, you know, that was really that was willing to, you know, one, be my attorney. And I also went around looking for people that were two, looking to join me in the lawsuit. And like I said at that time, because President Trump was the person that said we’re going to ban these products, you know, we’re just going to do away with them. No one wanted to challenge that at the time. You know, and I have a tunnel vision when it comes to the Second Amendment. I stand up for the the I have this tunnel vision and I stand on the right, what I think is right. And you know, the 1st Amendment, you have a freedom of speech. That Second Amendment actually backs that speech up and protects it. And so, I said I don’t care what president actually said they’re gonna ban this particular product. I’m gonna stand behind behind the constitution and I’m gonna make sure that, you know, this does not happen. So, I found an attorney. You know, they were looking for a client. I was looking for an attorney. No one wanted to join me as Co-plaintiffs in this lawsuit that decided to do it all by myself doing on my own.
Tony Katz:
You say that the idea of banning them is unconstitutional or the methodology utilized was unconstitutional?
Michael Cargill:
The whole process was unconstitutional. We’re talking about, this is much bigger than firearms. We’re talking about an administrative agency deciding to tell you that something that you legally own possess is actually legal. They’re going, they’re going to make a rule that’s going to turn you in essence, into a felon. You know, overnight. It’s not just about the ATF, it’s about the EPA. It’s about OSHA. You pick any government agency. This case here is case law. The Cargill case is case laws that’s going to protect my Texas farmers, is going to protect my Texas ranchers because there are government agencies that are trying to write rules to tell them what they can and cannot do and make them criminals. And I’m saying you cannot do that. You have to go through Congress. Congress, it’s their job to write a bill, create a law and do those things. And then when that happens, then we’ll take it up. You know, we’ll go up against Congress if we have to. But Congress, that’s how our Constitution is written.
Tony Katz:
So, what comes next now that that this is done? It’s just you just go back to work. You go back to centraltexasgunworks.com and you’re providing classes so people can get their license to carry in Texas … Does anything change?
Michael Cargill:
What we do is we one we continue the fight. We have not given up. You know, I’ve been doing this for quite a few years. I’ve been actually in this fight for over 20 years… So, this is not my first fight. This is not my first victory. I’ve been in this fight for quite a long time. And so, we’re going to continue on. You know, I have several suits. We’re suing the state of New York right now because the state of New York says that if I sell a gun to someone here in Texas, that gun ends up being stolen from this person and end up in New York and using the crime. The state of New York says they can sue me, they can sue the distributor, they can also sue the manufacturer. And so, we’re suing the state of New York because when there’s a, you know, a guy jumps into a car, you know, runs over people, kill them in a parade during a parade route, drives the parade route and runs over, you know, kids and children. You know, women and, and, and kill them in the parade routes. We don’t see anyone going to the Chevy dealership or the Ford dealership and protesting and trying to hold them accountable. They hold that person that was driving that vehicle accountable. And so, when you start doing that with firearms, stop going to the dealer, the distributor, the manufacturer trying to hold them accountable. Hold the individual accountable. That is what we need to do in this country and that’s the fight that I’m fighting for, and I will continue to fight this until my very last breath.
Garland v. Cargill – Wikipedia
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